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In this episode of 'all about business', Entrepreneur, Property Investor, and Author Rob Moore shares his journey from being £50,000 in debt to becoming a multi-millionaire in less than five years.
Rob discusses his philosophy on money as a store of time, value, and energy, the importance of finding opportunity, raising money, and building a business from scratch. We explore his views on the significance of hard work, the role of education in preparing future entrepreneurs and the critical aspects of building a personal brand in today's digital age.
01:44 Podcast Introduction and Guest Welcome
03:34 Rob Moore's Early Life and Influences
05:05 The Turning Point: Meeting a Business Partner
09:23 The Rise of a Training Business
14:47 University vs. Entrepreneurship
27:11 The Essence of Money
33:38 Recruitment and Team Building
36:56 The Importance of Management Skills
39:02 Integrity and Honesty in Recruitment
41:42 The Role of LinkedIn in Personal Branding
48:24 The Value of Hard Work and Entrepreneurship
52:51 Rob Moore Foundation: Supporting Young Entrepreneurs
59:20 Finding the Right Business Partner
01:08:04 The Significance of Personal Brand
Follow Rob Moore on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robmoore1979/
Visit Rob’s website: https://robmoore.com/
Buy Rob’s book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Money-Know-Learn-money-transform/dp/1473641330
Follow James Reed on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
[00:00:00] Rob: One of my missions is to help people fall in love with money. Because people think that money is bad or money is evil. Money is a tool.
[00:00:07] James: Is it like alcohol? You know, a little bit's nice and everyone feels happy, but too much makes you sick. Rob Moore went from having nothing to being a multi millionaire in less than five years.
[00:00:18] Rob: Money is a store of time, value and energy. If you work for money, Eight hours a day, 40 hours a week, you're exchanging your time for the money. The more valuable you are to society, the more that is stored in the money you receive.
[00:00:33] James: Now, he's a self made property investor, entrepreneur, and author, helping his legion of followers take control of their finances and become disruptive entrepreneurs.
[00:00:44] Rob: There seems to be this prevailing narrative that people should work less. But we, most people worked less through lockdown. And you don't turn an economy around by working less. I don't want someone to come in who wants to be paid for five days but work for three. [00:01:00] I think a cashless society is bad. I always keep enough money to get myself out of a problem.
Might be 500 quid, a thousand quid, because you never know where you're going to be. Starbucks. Don't take cash. Your phone's dead. For that reason, I think it's important to keep cash. We've all had pain in our lives. So everyone listening, including us, have had trauma and hardship, and I'm still running away from some of my pains, thankfully, them helping me towards success and wealth.
So everyone thinks property is a rich person's game. It's not. It's a raising money game. Pretty much every billionaire, I think by none, had to get good at raising money at some point.
[00:01:34] James: Do you build a business from nothing into a million pound plus in less than five minutes? How did you do that? Welcome to all about business with me, James Reid, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership.
Every episode, I sit down with different guests who bootstrap companies, masterminded investment models, or built a business empire. They're [00:02:00] leaders in their field, and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture.
Roll. Thank you so much for coming in to see me today. I think it was five years ago. Mm. That we met in this very room when I appeared on your Disruptors podcast. And I remember, I, I remember I was thinking about, I think I was late. I think I was about 20 minutes late, and funnily enough, you were today. So is this What a great way to intro, mate.
[00:02:33] Rob: There was a fire on the train line. I got in the dirtiest taxi from Bigglesway. You saw So you made a big effort. I made a 165 taxi fare to get here. Did you? Let's just put this lightness into context. Okay,
[00:02:48] James: then, then thank you again for that commitment, Rob. So it wasn't, it wasn't just a sort of revenge.
No, no, it wasn't. I'm grateful to him. Yeah. So to introduce you fairly and properly, you are an entrepreneur. [00:03:00] Uh, you are an author. Some of your books are here in two of them, but you're a 17 others. I believe, um, you are a podcaster of note having, I believe done over a thousand podcasts. So there's a lot of things I want to ask you about, but the first thing I want to ask you about is you built a business from nothing, uh, into a million pound plus in less than five years.
And that is going to be of great interest to a lot of prospective entrepreneurs and people listening. How did you do that? What did you do? Just give us the heads up.
[00:03:34] Rob: Well, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur because my dad was one. And he ran pubs and bars and clubs. He's a nearly 81 now, and he got me working age six, which of course would probably be illegal now, but I loved it.
And I wanted to work in the pubs and the bars more than I did go to school. Didn't really like school. And [00:04:00] then I'm 26, 50, 000 pounds in debt, got a university degree and did nothing with it. Architecture, completely kind of useless really for me. Felt very lost, didn't know where I wanted to go in my life.
And my dad had this really big nervous breakdown in his pub in front of all of his customers. It was a horrific thing for us. He got beaten up by the police. It was, he got diagnosed with bipolar and it all happened very publicly. I remember around that time for a few weeks after just thinking things can't really get any worse.
I'm supposed to be pretty intelligent. I've got a degree. My dad raised me with, to be entrepreneurial. And yet here I am, nearly 27, losing at every area of life. But the one gift that gave me was, [00:05:00] well, things can't get any worse. Screw it, I suppose. So a few serendipitous things happened. I was doing part time art to try and pay off the debts and a gallery owner who was almost like a little mentor to me, was very supportive of me.
He said, there's this property meeting going on at the holiday and you should go. And of course, the first thing I said, well, that's why I haven't got any money. And also if I'm honest, I didn't really like rich or entrepreneurs back then. I was a bit of like the rage against the machine, you know, a system, you know, all of that.
Which I know now is really bad. Well, you write in your book about disliking the man in the Ferrari. Yeah, and then you become the But you become the guy in the
[00:05:44] James: Fluence you now have, I think.
[00:05:46] Rob: Yeah, yeah, eight. Eight of those kind of cars I have. Oh, eight, okay. It's weird how you can become the thing you hate, but it was ignorance more than anything else.
Um, and so I ended up going to this property meeting [00:06:00] and I hated it. And I sat at the back and didn't want to talk to anyone. And I felt very out of place in my ripped jeans and my spiky hair and my rock t shirts. Um, and everyone was in a suit. And what were
[00:06:12] James: they talking about?
[00:06:13] Rob: Well, They were just talking about property, but what, what did, what did I know about property?
And I just didn't fit in, but I, I now know property doesn't have a type as you know, entrepreneurship doesn't have a top. We're both entrepreneurs and we're, you know, we, we look and we're different and we've had different backgrounds. So business, entrepreneurship, money, it doesn't have a type, which is great news for everyone listening.
You know, you think you're in debt, you think you're struggling, you think you've got the wrong upbringing. No. It doesn't have a type. And I learned that a few years after. So I went to this property meeting and I met my business partner there, right at the end, the last person I spoke to, and we started forging a friendship out of business.
And very quickly we got into business together and [00:07:00] within the first year we'd bought 20 properties with his money. Within the second year, we bought another 30 with his money. We'd started our own training company. And like you said, we've got that to more than a million pounds in less than five years.
And we peaked at about 25 million in sales and lockdown happened and that made it a bit harder in the training business. And then we've got 345 properties that. So you had 25 million in sales in the training business. Yeah, that was, we're, we're still nearly there. I mean, I know
[00:07:32] James: that market, that's a big training business.
[00:07:33] Rob: Yeah. I mean, for the UK it is. And, um, well, I'd like to push it more, but lockdown can't say the C word or the V word on, on YouTube. Um, yeah, so, uh, it's been a journey and it went from, it all started with minus 50 grand in debt. And the first way I funded my, um, lean startup was by meeting a [00:08:00] business partner who is a bit further down the line than me and had a bit more money than me and a bit more experienced than me.
We used my hustle and desperation and thirst and drive and commitment. And desperation, quite frankly, and we, we used his experience and money and that became a good partnership.
[00:08:18] James: So you've said a number of things that have rung bells for me. You were 26. I hope I answered the question. You did, you did, you did.
And, but you've said, you've prompted some more questions in mind. You, I was listening to you, you were 26, I think, when you went to that. Yeah, 26 and years and 11 months. And that was exactly the same age as my father was when he started our business. Oh, wow. And, and we've had other people on this podcast who started businesses I think that all been 26 so anyone approaching 26 should be thinking carefully about that.
You, you, you also accepted a suggestion or invitation of I've long spoken about the power of invitations and conversations to be transformational. I mean, that was a life changing decision to go that property leasing and meeting your [00:09:00] now business partner. So what I take from that is the things that don't seem very significant at the time can take on huge significance.
Subsequently. If you're open to going to, that's how I met my wife going to something when I didn't want to go ring that bell. So, you know, just being open to doing things is also especially early in your career, but all through it, I think. And then you, you, you said that you built a training business as well as a property business.
What were you, what were you training? I mean, what was the idea there? What got you to do both at the same time?
[00:09:34] Rob: So I'd like to connect back to something you said, because I wrote a book called Opportunity. And when it comes to opportunity, when you're starting out, I think it's important to say yes first and then seek out the how later.
And we used to go to all sorts of events after I met my business partner. In 2006 and seven, we must have gone to a hundred networking events and business events, and they kind of died [00:10:00] with lockdown. They're coming back now, so I completely agree with you. You're a bit out of your depth, you don't know what to do, you don't know if it's right for you, try it.
Because other, other doors will open up, and that's why I wrote that book. Um, so, yeah, I wanted to connect back to that. So regarding the training business, it's on what we did. So we started buying property and owning property. And it wasn't long before people are like, you guys aren't even 30. How have you got 50, 60 properties in your portfolio?
You need to teach us how to do this. These residential
[00:10:32] James: properties.
[00:10:32] Rob: Yeah, I mean, we do commercials now and we do blocks now. So it, my trendy business started with my first book called property investing secrets. Cause around 2007 stroke eight, we'd amassed. I don't know, maybe 50 or 60 properties. We'd sold some, but we'd, we'd kept a decent amount enough.
People were asking about it and trying to get our knowledge that I thought, well, [00:11:00] I might as well write a book. And then anytime anyone asked me, at least I can get a tenor for it or don't have to keep repeating myself.
[00:11:07] James: So you'll be, so you're generous in sharing your knowledge. You weren't keeping that as a secret.
No, well,
[00:11:13] Rob: obviously I've done thousands of podcast episodes, tens of thousands of videos, so. Yeah, I do think I'm generous with my knowledge, but I've also built the training business on it, which does well as well. I, I believe the more you give, the more you receive, as opposed to we can't tell everyone your secrets.
[00:11:28] James: And that's, that's worked well for you. So, so what's the key point in the book, the property book?
[00:11:35] Rob: Well, property, is about one, finding a local area or a close catchment area that works well. You can't go all over the country doing it because it's actually quite a, it's not just a a national market, it's a local market.
So that's one. Two is finding the type of property that works in your area. So it might be multi let [00:12:00] students, professionals, in our area, converting commercial, because there's lots of empty space, into residential above, and then leasing out the shops below, works really, really well. That's the second one.
And then the third thing is raising money. Because even if you've got some savings and deposits, you'll soon run out if you want to build a portfolio. So at some point, you're going to need to get good at raising money. I've since learned with my, what, two decades of research on money, that pretty much every billionaire, I think bar none, had to get good at raising money at some point.
Whether it was, you know, to sell shares in the business, to grow. Um, so everyone thinks property is a rich person's game. It's not. It's a raising money game. So they're probably the three top tips. Very interesting. So, so how did you raise the money? Well, my business partner initially. So I didn't know, but you didn't know you had the money when you
[00:12:53] James: first met him.
He just,
[00:12:53] Rob: no, I didn't. And it's probably a good job. I didn't cause I probably would have messed, fluffed my lines and messed it all
[00:12:58] James: up. [00:13:00] Um,
[00:13:00] Rob: I probably would have behaved in a different way. I probably would have felt like a bit insecure and not worthy, but we're both similar ages, a year younger. We'd both recently been made single by getting dumped.
So we, we were going, we were going out on the town back when they used to be a nightlife and we, we were interested in property and business me right at the start, him relatively at the start, but he'd had a few years ahead of me. Um, and, and, uh, he had built up some savings because for example, he's the kind of, he just loves investing.
So when we were all drinking our student loans, he invested it. He took a student loan and he invested it in the markets. And so over what, probably 10 years from age 16 to 26, he'd amassed a portfolio of properties. It was probably nearly a millionaire, very quiet, humble, secret one, not like a gregarious one.
And, but because I was a bit more out there prepared to take some risks, prepared to learn stuff [00:14:00] like he doesn't do personal brand. I do all that. He doesn't do content. I do all that. He quickly figured out, hmm Rob, he's a bit of a rough diamond. But there's something about him, and I figured out fairly quickly, mostly when he got drunk and told me how much money he had, which he didn't mean to do, I've figured out, he was a bit ahead of the game with me, he had a bit of money, he had a stepdad who, um, still to this day does, had money, so he had the money and the experience, I had the energy, and that's how we funded, probably our first fifty So, yeah, Deals.
I would say
[00:14:34] James: we're delighted that you're watching this episode. Please hit the subscribe button. If you'd like to receive more insights and actionable advice that will help your business and or career. So you also said at the outset that you'd been a university, you'd done an architecture degree, you'd had come out with debt, you seemed a bit down.
What would you say to young people wondering whether to go to [00:15:00] university or not?
[00:15:01] Rob: Do you want me to get you cancelled here?
[00:15:05] James: I'm not sure what you're going to say next. No,
[00:15:08] Rob: you should say yes, please.
[00:15:09] James: Get me cancelled. Come on, let's hear it. All right, no, I'll be
[00:15:13] Rob: balanced. I think if you want to be a doctor, a dentist, a lawyer, a solicitor, an accountant, it's still probably relevant to go to university.
In those kind of professions, I think if you want to be an entrepreneur, it's the wrong place to go. I really do. Because here's the paradox. You go to university and the people who are teaching finance and business are on 40, 50 grand salaries. Nothing wrong with that, but you know, probably not the kind of money you want to make as an entrepreneur or to be wealthy.
And I think that what the teach, what the system is teaching you is, At best out of date and at worst as an ulterior motive to bring you into the system, to make the banks rich and, you know, pay your taxes and more taxes and more taxes. So I think if you want to be a free thinking, independent, [00:16:00] fast moving, dynamic, dare I say, disruptive entrepreneur, I don't think you should go to university because I think it will probably
educate out of you the traits you already have inbuilt within you that you were born with to be entrepreneurial. Also, the amount that it costs now, James, it is ridiculously expensive to put yourself through college or university and with the internet, social media, AI, you know, experienced investors and entrepreneurs like yourself on these podcasts.
People like me, creators, influencers, between all of that, you can get so much knowledge now online.
[00:16:48] James: I went to two universities. I'm wondering whether I should have. One of them was a business school in America and I think that was useful. The first one I went to I had to unlearn quite a lot [00:17:00] of stuff. And I think unlearning is sometimes as important as learning.
And so if you really If you go with your sort of argument So would you send your kids to uni now? Some of them have been and some of them haven't. I've got six kids. Yeah. Um, and Most of them have been to university, not all of them, and one of them is not sure whether she wants to stay there.
[00:17:20] Rob: Right, so the ones that have been to university, are they entrepreneurs?
[00:17:24] James: Uh, one is. Yeah. But he was the most reluctant student. Right, ah. So. So, yeah. Yeah, there might be something in what you say. Yeah. So, but I think it's interesting, 16. I've interviewed lots of entrepreneurs who did not go to university. It's more common, in fact, than not to have done, although there are definitely
[00:17:44] Rob: both sides.
And actually, the important message, I think, is you don't have to.
[00:17:48] James: Yeah.
[00:17:48] Rob: Because whether I think it's right or wrong, a lot of people think, well, you have to go to university. Clearly, you don't have to if
[00:17:55] James: you want to be. I mean, you went to university, so did I, interestingly. You're saying you don't have [00:18:00] to.
And I think it was a waste for me. I really do. And so, What you mentioned all these sort of opportunities to learn, what would you say to a young person be the best way to start your entrepreneurial apprenticeship, if you like?
[00:18:15] Rob: Well, read your books, watch and listen to podcasts like this, follow all the top business people, entrepreneurs and creators in either business and entrepreneurship.
and or in the niche that you're already in and you can do most of that for free or you're paying 10 pounds for a book um in fact you can get audible credit so even if you're hard up yeah you can you can start now there's a big difference between like an influencer type and someone like yourself who's been doing it a long time and it's proven The influencer type is probably good on social media.
You've got decades of business experience. Learn from both types. I'm probably some, I'm probably sat in the middle between those two extremes. But yeah, just be hungry to learn. [00:19:00] There's a saying, the more you learn, the more you earn. And be hungry to learn. And continue to remain curious. Yes, and, and you know, uh, one of the 21 common traits in billionaires, I've interviewed 23 billionaires, and I, I stayed in touch with most of those, and I did a 10 year research project for my book Money, and of the 21 common habits I could pick out, intense curiosity is one of them, like a lot of billionaires I've interviewed Um, they start turning the tables on me and asking me questions.
I'm sitting there thinking you're the billionaire. I'm not a billionaire, but they re yeah. Intense curiosity is it's a great, you will get wealthy or become a good entrepreneur if you stay curious. And stay hungry. So how do you stay hungry? Well, there's two ways to stay hungry. I mean, when it comes to food, you are the most hungry when you haven't eaten for a long time.
So actually being broke or not being where you want to be in [00:20:00] life or having some insecurities or some failures. This is actually really good for being successful, you know, you'll know this many entrepreneurs failed the first or the second time many people went bust 123 times in America, having gone bust is actually a tick on whether they'll lend you money because it shows that you're prepared to take risks.
So you can either go, you keep the hunger through some pain or some failing or some lack and you tune into that. So that's inside, you're making a very sort of visual reference, I'm a bit of a touchy, I'm an emotional guy. But
[00:20:40] James: for people who aren't watching but listening, you're sort of making a physical Yeah, we've all
[00:20:44] Rob: had pain in our lives.
Yes. And you know there's the simple saying, it makes you or breaks you. So everyone listening, including us, have had trauma and hardship. Does it break you or do you tap into it and go never again? [00:21:00] And I'm still running away from some of my pains. Thankfully them helping me towards success and wealth. So that's one way of staying hungry.
The other one is having a really big mission. The bigger the mission, the smaller, the problems and challenges. And, you know, if you can focus on something much bigger than you. You're always moving towards something. Imagine playing snakes and ladders and getting to the square 100. And then it's like, Oh, actually it's a 200 square game.
Oh, actually it's a 400 square game. You know, People who play computer games, they don't get upset, um, when they complete the level, they get excited about the next level. So you always need like a next level. In fact, people who play computer games probably get a bit, Oh, I finished the game, what now? So you want to see business and life like snakes and ladders but it never ends.
Or a computer game where once you complete the game there's actually another game that unfolds.
[00:21:54] James: But you said, and I just want to clarify what I'm saying, the bigger the mission, the smaller the problem, and so what you're [00:22:00] saying, I believe, is if you've got a huge, big goal, or you're trying to do something very substantial, that really changes things.
You have a problem, like maybe running out of money doesn't seem quite so sort of
[00:22:13] Rob: yeah,
[00:22:13] James: that's pretty, is that right?
[00:22:14] Rob: That's exactly, exactly that. So I'll give you an example that I have, um, yesterday, my head of marketing resigned, but she's actually starting our own business. And I see that maybe you
[00:22:24] James: inspired it.
Well, I did
[00:22:26] Rob: too well, but actually I'd rather that. And actually that makes, gives me a sense of pride, but you know, I'm sat here and probably right up there with my MD. The most important person in my company is the head of marketing because we're a marketing business, but because I know I've got a global mission because I want to help as many people on this planet get better financial knowledge, I'm not sitting here focusing on that problem because I've got a bigger vision, and it's frustrating because the last head of marketing maybe lasted a similar amount of time, and it's one of our most important role.
So if I wanted to, I could get really into the depths of [00:23:00] difficulties and depression and frustration. I could start going into blame. But because I have a global mission and vision, I know I just, that's fine. I've kissed a couple of frogs as it were, just need to keep looking. I mean, I went through so many PAs until I found my great.
My MD, she's been with us 14 years, first MD stay with the seven since sometimes you get lucky or you do it. Well, other times you kiss a few frogs. It's just the way it is.
[00:23:26] James: So Rob needs a head of marketing, everyone. Thank you. As you've come all this way, I'm sorry about that. Um, no, that's really, that's really interesting to me because these, these then become sort of frustrations, but they're not sort of.
Awesome. Well, I'm gonna put you off course.
[00:23:44] Rob: No, well, it's a choice. Actually, a frustration can either get you to blame, complain, defend, justify, or a frustration can make you move forward if all emotions are feedback and [00:24:00] challenges can be opportunities. Frustrations can make you work more. And like you said, money, um, you can have no money or feel like you're going broke.
That's very frustrating. So go, so use that to go and raise
[00:24:14] James: some more, raise some. So your book money is sitting here. I mean, the money, the word money has come up quite a lot. And I'm going to ask you a question. I was asked some time ago, which I thought was an interesting one, which is what is your first memory of money?
[00:24:28] Rob: So I have two main memories of money. They're not actually that young. One is my dad always used to keep his pound notes in his back pocket. So, dad reaching into his back pocket, I mean I've sort of, I mean I think it's important to keep cash for various reasons. I think a cashless society is bad. Um, I always keep enough money to get myself out of a problem.
Um, so it's, you know, it might be a 500 quid, a thousand quid, cause you never know where you're going to be. Like my train this morning, a [00:25:00] fire, but your phone
[00:25:01] James: can go flat.
[00:25:02] Rob: Yeah, you're exactly your phone like Starbucks don't take cash. Your phone's dead. So, um, So, uh, for that reason I think it's important to keep cash, but it's an homage to my dad.
So my dad always used to put his back pocket in it, and he would, he would reach into his back pocket really slowly, and he would pull out his money really slowly, and he'd almost lick his finger. Do you remember the old ten pound notes, how big they were? Yeah, I remember
[00:25:27] James: the one pound notes. Yeah,
[00:25:28] Rob: well he had one pound notes as well.
They were green. Yeah, yes, yeah. The ten pound notes were brown. Yeah. And, and they were like twice as big as they are now. And he used to get it out, and he'd count it out, and he'd pay everything in cash, and I just remembered, DRAWLING. Oh, money. So that was one. Well, you wanted, you wanted some of that. Yeah.
Because I looked up to my dad, my dad was a successful entrepreneur, and he always had a load of pound notes, so I linked them. So he
[00:25:54] James: had freedom and could do what he liked, so he had some money in his back pocket.
[00:25:58] Rob: Yeah, yeah. And then [00:26:00] the other memory was, um, my dad would let me empty the pool tables and the fruit machines, the slot machines, from age six.
And so we'd pull out these big containers from the leg of the pool table or the slot machine, it was just masses of coins, and I'd get good at counting them up really quick and bagging them up, and the 10p's back then were huge. So you
[00:26:20] James: were a sort of 6 year old counting machine. Yeah,
[00:26:23] Rob: and I got really quick at doing it, and actually got really quick at, like with maths, sort of under say 10, 000 I'm really quick, because I would be counting, yeah, yeah, so they're my two first.
Yeah. And memories of money. Have you been asked that before? No, I haven't actually. That's an interesting question. It is. And
[00:26:42] James: your answer was very interesting.
[00:26:43] Rob: And actually lights me with enjoyment. So maybe that's a thing. Because I know a lot of people have got really bad memories around money. You know, maybe being broke growing up or the parents having bad associations with money, so I'm glad mine are good.
[00:26:57] James: Yeah, so you, you, you wrote [00:27:00] about raising money and, and how to go about that. I mean, you gave a very piffy summary of your property advice. What advice do you give people on raising money?
[00:27:11] Rob: Okay, so, um, what money is? And it's actually an update from my book money. There's, there's more economic definitions in my book money.
But if I could summarize a 20 year research project, meaning hundreds of millionaires becoming one before my 31st birthday, money is a store of time, value. and energy. That's what money is. So this is your Rob Moore definition or is it? Well, I mean, I like it.
[00:27:43] James: I'm not, I'm not
[00:27:44] Rob: going to, yeah, I mean, I want to learn more.
Yeah. I'd love to say the definition, but that, that would be a bit self congratulatory again. What is it again? The store of money is a store of time, value, and energy, time, value, [00:28:00] and energy. So if I could quickly explain, if you work eight hours a day, 40 hours a week, You're exchanging your time for the money, so the money is storing your time, so the time you spent yesterday is stored in money, so you can use the money tomorrow.
[00:28:18] James: Okay.
[00:28:19] Rob: So that's the time store. But, you might earn, well you, you've probably earned 10, 000 pound an hour with your time, I might earn 20 pounds an hour.
[00:28:30] James: So it's not just time. I thought we were going 20,000 .
[00:28:33] Rob: It's your own show. How, how can ihr you on your own show? Well,
[00:28:37] James: I dunno. I think you're doing quite well, ,
[00:28:41] Rob: but, so it's not just time because someone could earn minimum wage and someone could earn, I mean, these footballers are earning thousands a minute.
So the value part is the more valuable you are to society, the more that is stored in the money you [00:29:00] receive. And then the energy part is, grain used to be one of our uses for money, salt, grain, they were money stores. It's in the history section. But the reason grain was a great store of, um, essentially was a currency, Was cause it could store energy well.
So you could have grain from last year's harvest stored in a granary. So granaries were essentially early banks. Cause the granary would store the grain. Now if, if the um, grain went out of date in a day, it's a terrible store of energy. But it would store food energy for a year or years. And now money is that same store of your energy, all the life force energy you've put into business and entrepreneurship over many decades is stored in all the money you've made for yourself and all the money you've helped, you know, your, your staff and your clients make.
So money is a store. A very [00:30:00] good store of time, value, and energy. So, if you want to raise more money, you need to put more time in, increase your own value, and raise your energy. On a simple level,
[00:30:17] James: so that I've never heard money described in that way, so thank you. I've learned something and I'm going to spend a lot of time thinking about that.
It's not an immediately sort of
[00:30:26] Rob: well, no, because there's thousands of years of history. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Imagine someone's
[00:30:30] James: pitching interesting summary. Someone pitches you and
[00:30:35] Rob: they've got a valuable idea and they've got really good high energy. You're probably more likely to give them the money. They pitch you, there's nothing in the deck, there's no value and they've got really low energy, yeah.
So, and these, the good thing about this is you don't need to be an expert to start. And if you look at Dragon's Den, a lot of them are startups. Not all of them have been going for years. So people think, oh, you know, you need experience, you need a CV [00:31:00] with decades of knowledge. No, you don't. Time, value, energy.
[00:31:05] James: So you talked about the 21 or maybe 23 billionaires that you had spoken to. Hey. Did they all really present at a high level in those three measures, or were they more mixed?
[00:31:19] Rob: They weren't pitching me for money, and I wasn't pitching them for money. If I look at their life story, they've obviously got very good at creating value.
A lot of people are a bit upset that they're not earning enough or their prices aren't high enough. And a lot of people are looking for the government or their employer or someone outside of themselves to pay them more or to give them reliefs or reduce taxes, which is not going to happen. Um, the simple way to make more money, whether you're employed or not, is to create more value.
Now, value is a perception. [00:32:00] So for example, I think gambling is quite bad for society and, um, I would never support it and I would never. Um, invest in a gambling firm or start a gambling firm, but there are people that become, become billionaires out of gambling. And I'm not judging that because there's hundreds of millions of people who want to gamble.
So it clearly has some value to society. Otherwise it wouldn't be in society or a section of society. Exactly. Yeah. And, and of course, over time we figure out, gee, maybe it's not good for humanity because a small amount of gambling is probably light relief from stress. Yeah. But then it gets worse and that's
[00:32:39] James: true of other things that can get worse over time, I suppose.
[00:32:43] Rob: Or a small amount is good and a large amount is bad. So be careful not to prejudge what value is. Just look at what society needs. And if you can give it and show it, you're going to get paid well. So right now, AI is [00:33:00] obviously huge right now. As you said, we talked about this earlier recruitment. I mean, desperate need of really good quality, talented staff.
Both locally and globally, and there are many other needs that people have, so a really good entrepreneur finds a problem or a need, and then fixes it, creates a solution, and then packages it in a way that other people perceive as valuable. If you increase that value, you increase the money that comes to you.
[00:33:30] James: So, you talked about your team, you said recruitment was a It's a huge issue. Big issue for you. Yeah. Um, you've built a business out of over a hundred people, what do you look for in those people, you know, if you're, and I'm asking you this question, particularly with sort of people who are starting out in mind or people who are building a business, you know, from the ground up, what do you look for in those people to come on the journey with you?
[00:33:58] Rob: Right. So [00:34:00] I'm doing a lot more content on LinkedIn and my, I'm starting to get some good traction there. And I read a lot of posts on LinkedIn about recruitment and staffing. And most of it's waffly nonsense. And, and I'm going to go straight in on that. So a lot of people say that you should hire on attitude because skills can be taught.
I don't want a happy coder. I don't want a positive, you know, tech guy. I want someone who's really bloody good at the job. So contextually, if I've got a very technically specific job, I want a very technically good person. And if they smell, And if they're obnoxious, I'll buy them a fridge, I'll put loads of Red Bull in it, I'll put them in a dark corner, I'll give them a really powerful computer and a massive screen, and they will get all excited and crack [00:35:00] on.
Do you watch Slow Horsin I love Slow Horsin I know exactly who you're thinking of. He's got his six screens. Yeah, he fits the bill. Yeah, exactly. But he's obviously great at his job, but he's also got his own quirk. I was, yeah, I was exactly thinking, I was thinking the same guy. So if he's technically specific that I need, like if I want someone to do AI, I don't want them to be a happy person.
I don't want to be unhappy. No. Well, it depends if they're unhappy and that's why they're, um, we'll never stop. In their job, that could be a good motivator. So you've got technical, I want technical. If you've got fairly low technical, so admin or easy to learn, that's where attitude is really important. So I want an, and by the way, attitude, attitude has to be defined.
So all these people on LinkedIn saying you [00:36:00] hire on attitude because skills can be learned. Well, I've got people who are people pleasers. But they don't get their own work done because they're trying to please everybody else. Or, they, they say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but they're actually not very good at critical thinking.
So even attitude has to be defined. So when it comes to low technical, I probably want open mindedness. I mean, Ray Dalio, the billionaire, says he thinks that's one of the highest traits of successful people, open mindedness, um, is prepared to and has a desire to solve problems. Yeah, you probably do want a glass half full, not a glass half empty, although glass half empty coders are quite good because they're always looking for problems, not solutions.
So this is why LinkedIn gets it wrong because it's contextual. And of course I'm teaching you to suck eggs. This is your world. I'm not
[00:36:54] James: interested. You got to three. Any more? Yeah. So then the
[00:36:56] Rob: third one is management. Management. Yeah. So we've got, [00:37:00] we've got attitude, we've got technical skill and then management and when it comes to management, especially C, um, senior management.
I'll tell you two mistakes I made, James, and I've been doing this two decades. Two mistakes I made with my head of marketing was, um, I, I looked at their marketing skills, but I needed a really good manager. So if, if I, if I'm looking for a head of marketing, I'm where I am now bearing in mind, marketing single most important function in my business.
I could have 25 staff in marketing if I could scale it. I want management experience first, technical ability way later. Because a good manager can hire technical skills. My mark 2 manager doesn't need to know SEO, doesn't need to know pay per click, doesn't need to know social media, doesn't need to know organic, and I used to think they did.
Now, if you've got two people in your marketing team, they do, but we've got currently 15 and I want 25. They need to be a really good manager. [00:38:00] So they're the three areas I look for. And when it comes to management, I'm sorry, I need to see experience all these people on LinkedIn saying, Oh, well, job popping is good, you know, cause you get more experience.
No, if you've job hopped every six months, would you've been a pogo stick beyond my role
[00:38:16] James: again? Again, in likelihood. Yeah. So I
[00:38:18] Rob: actually, and. And even though I'm an entrepreneur, I quite like pulling in people from corporate, if they've got, you know, two or three, five year plus jobs, and they've managed a lot of people.
What would you say to that as the man in recruitment? I think
[00:38:35] James: you're, you're, well, I've, I read a book some time ago called Put Your Mindset to Work, which was looking at skill set and mindset. And employers say, 97 percent of them say they'd recruit mindset, a hell of skill set. But there's a caveat that you want both.
And some jobs. Yeah, it is actually. But if you can find those [00:39:00] people, you're really onto something. Um, the, the aspect I would really look for that's in that mix on this attitude or mindset thing is integrity, honesty. I've had problems in the past with dishonest people, untrustworthy people. You probably have too.
Everyone in business has. And when my finance director says, Oh, we haven't found any frauds lately. It's really good. Everything's fine. I'm saying there'll be someone up to something. So
[00:39:25] Rob: especially in the finance department, where
[00:39:28] James: all the money is, we've had them there. So, you know, I think integrity is hugely important.
And that, how'd you,
[00:39:35] Rob: how'd you get out of an interview then?
[00:39:37] James: Um, yeah, it's not easy. No, I'm not sure you do. And, um, I mean, you could, you should take our references. Yeah. You should, you should do other checks. Yeah. Cause a lot of people don't
[00:39:48] Rob: do those checks too though. But even, even references can kind of be a bit gamed.
Can't they?
[00:39:53] James: We have a screening business employs over a hundred people, nothing else, but checking people out, checking the facts on [00:40:00] those for our clients.
[00:40:02] Rob: You know what? So yeah, this, this meeting might cost me more than my 156 pound taxi. Cause I think we need to, yeah. Ah, that's fascinating. So, you
[00:40:12] James: know, and if you, you would talk about LinkedIn, you know, if you.
Look at people's CVs and you compare with their profiles on LinkedIn. They're not necessarily the same. And you know, they need to be sometimes checked.
[00:40:23] Rob: Well, I mean, some CVs are like a great fiction novel. But we find
[00:40:27] James: that 40 percent have errors in.
[00:40:30] Rob: That's a very nice way of saying they
[00:40:32] James: lie. Well, well, there might be deliberate errors or there might be Yeah.
Yeah. Just errors. Yeah. So they might be malicious errors or they might not. But 40 percent have errors. So yeah, it's worth checking. So you, you have to do, I think you're asking me this question, which you did. You have to, you have to do as much as you can to find out about someone before you hire them.
And a great question for a referee, because now a lot of people won't send you written references and stuff. It's just one [00:41:00] question, and as long as they answer it honestly, it's a great question, is would you rehire this person? Well,
[00:41:06] Rob: surely everyone's going to say no, because that person's gone.
[00:41:10] James: No, no, I would rehire lots of people who left the business, because I think they're good people.
[00:41:14] Rob: Oh, but they left,
[00:41:15] James: yeah, yeah, I get you, yeah. So would you rehire this person? So that's my hint. So, Rob, back to you. Yeah, but now you've got me going. You've come a long way. You've come a long way. That's fine. Would you re hire this
[00:41:28] Rob: person? Do you mind if
[00:41:29] James: I
[00:41:29] Rob: just make a note of that real quick now? Would
[00:41:31] James: you re hire this person?
It's a good tip. But you mentioned I'm
[00:41:36] Rob: listening.
[00:41:37] James: I have to You mentioned just now that you They become more active on LinkedIn and that was that. That goes to the next subject I wanted to ask you about is for entrepreneurs these days, and you are a very good example of it. You know, it is important for many to build a personal profile as well as build a business because of the way digital works and you've been doing [00:42:00] that.
Tell me a bit about what you're aiming to achieve with doing more on LinkedIn and why that's important.
[00:42:06] Rob: Yeah, so if I'm honest, I probably thought that LinkedIn was getting left behind. Um, because I have, what, almost half a million followers on Facebook, when you add all my non LinkedIn's, it's about three million, and of course they came after LinkedIn, um, and they all seemed to grow.
But what you found is they sort of boomed and bust, you know, TikTok, Instagram, but LinkedIn was that one that was steady and was there, and, and so I, I probably took my eye off it. Just cause I thought it was a bit of, it's just fallen behind everyone. But a few years ago it had a big update change and it sort of became more like Facebook and it had a feed and it changed and then it started to become more social.
And I was like, Oh, okay. And I started to use it more back then just as content creation. And I would often go very viral on it. [00:43:00] And then there's tick tock on my cause. My podcast blew up and YouTube and everything else. And you can't do everything, but I think the reason I do a post every day now. And I, I get myself about two weeks ahead.
So I have various VA's outsources who helped me. And for the years I've kind of not really been involved in LinkedIn. I've still posted, but I've not posted as much and I've maybe had them write content mostly for me. But now I write it all myself. I don't use AI. There's a feature
[00:43:30] James: on LinkedIn where you can press and write in AI, isn't there?
There is,
[00:43:33] Rob: and I think it's terrible. Right. I think it's terrible. Not for the future, but for the present. Um, because, like, one thing we're really missing in business and society is connections with other humans. You know, we met face to face. Had we not met face to face initially, Got to know each other. You may not have invited me back here.
And a lot of people are, especially in people in their late teens and twenties, haven't really [00:44:00] done much that, you know, they date online and all of that. It's dangerous. Like I'd never invest in someone until I've met them and looked in their eyes. And you talked about honesty, integrity. Well, often it's looking into someone's eyes.
So AI is great for the future, but the way I use AI, So I had an editor for money and an editor for life leverage and an editor for opportunity and you know, they would be paid like 6, 000 pounds. Now what I do is I don't need those because I use AI for that, but the content and the message, you know, and the tone because the tone gets lost in AI.
So just as a, as a side note, I think it's really important to maintain your integrity of voice, individualism and tone and use AI for the rest. And also I decide to be quite unique because I think there's a lot of. The content is just homogenized, um, and homogenized content is not going to set you apart from anyone else.
So yeah, I just, I [00:45:00] just recently again, started, um, putting my own unique, not repurposed by my team content on there and started, you know, a lot of my posts get millions of views now. And one is probably the channel that's full of the most. Active business people. So if you want a business type audience, which I do, and, and, you know, and not a just consumer or entertainer based audience, if I was an entertainer, LinkedIn is probably going to be useless for me.
If I'm an entrepreneur, a business owner, it's going to be good for me. So that's the, so there, there's a buying audience as a mature audience, because if I want to attract people for property, I'm probably going to need 40 plus age because they're going to need enough money for that. Um, and, and yeah, it's, it's algorithm seems to be, it seems to allow you to go [00:46:00] viral based on your content, not based on your following.
So that's good news to anyone starting out. Um, and. There's not many social channels where the written form is the best form. Everywhere else, it's lives or video, but on LinkedIn, the best type of content is written for us old school people. And I still like to write. And for some people, they don't want their face all over social media.
So for those reasons, LinkedIn's good. Oh, and of course, for recruitment.
[00:46:30] James: It's very good for that.
[00:46:31] Rob: Mm.
[00:46:31] James: Um, so. Yeah. I agree. You're saying you don't have to have a big following to go viral on LinkedIn, which is obviously useful for people who are starting out. What, what sort of, um, what sort of posts have you put on that have gone viral?
What, what sort of posts? You know, hit the mark. That's not a trade secret wrong.
[00:46:51] Rob: No, it's not. Cause anyone can go and see my content on LinkedIn. And I don't know
[00:46:56] James: which one's hit the million. I don't know. You, I suppose you'd see how many likes. Yeah, no,
[00:46:59] Rob: I, [00:47:00] when you use LinkedIn, it'll give you the views. They call it impression.
Some call it play. Some call it view. Some call it impressions. It's the same thing is basically how many people saw it. So the content that does the best for me is the content about money, especially Taxes. Labor coming in and my disruptive thoughts on that. Um, the central bank, digital currencies and the future of money and cashless society and, um, all of that kind of content does well.
Um, and then my views on recruitment, leadership, and employment. Now I go very much against the grain on LinkedIn. Because most of the content that goes viral on LinkedIn is all repurposed about toxic work culture, and it's very left leaning. Um, I wouldn't call myself right leaning, but someone would call me right leaning if they were to look at my content.
So I Talk a bit on, on, on the right side [00:48:00] of employment, which is more from the employer than the employer. So you've
[00:48:03] James: got a, a, a lot in play at the moment with the workers rights bill coming out, the new budget, you know, and prospects.
[00:48:09] Rob: Oh, yes. I'm going to go very viral and get lots of haters. Absolutely.
Well, you're obviously,
[00:48:15] James: you're, but you're
[00:48:15] Rob: trying to do that. Well, I'm trying to do that by, I'm trying to do that by also believing it. Like there seems to be this prevailing. narrative that people should work less, but we, most people worked less through lockdown and you don't turn an economy around by working less.
And here's the thing. Um, we're, we own companies and I don't want to work my stuff into the ground, but I don't want someone to come in who wants to be paid for five days, but work for three. And I don't want someone to come in who knows how to get a letter from their doctor to sign themselves off sick for three months.
So I'm, I'm In some ways to the left side, I'm quite unpopular on LinkedIn [00:49:00] because what I'm basically saying is, if you want to be happier and more successful, work harder or work better because we all get that sense of satisfaction when we've done a good day's work. I'm not saying you have to do 15 hours.
I don't want to create a toxic work culture, but actually I know that if I have just a bit too much to do in the day and I achieve a fair amount of it, I feel much better. Then work it at 60 percent and trying to get away with it because here's the biggest. I would say the worst place to get in life is doing just enough not to get fired.
That's a bad place to be or, um, earning just enough not to quit. They're the traps. So I teach people who are employed how to be a brilliant employee. But a lot of people get triggered because I think there's quite a lot of entitlement in society about the rights that we should all have. [00:50:00] How is this economy going to grow by giving more money to people who are doing less?
I don't see it.
[00:50:09] James: So that's your challenge, and you get kicked back or pushed back on that. But, when I'm listening to that, what I hear is how much you enjoy your work. And care about people. And I feel the same way, I love working. So I sort of don't really understand this. I sort of try to do less and less.
Nah. And actually when I see that, because we work a lot with people who've been unemployed, Usually not for their own food, but I see what the consequences of that have been on those people and, you know, the isolation that comes from not working and a lot of self worth, self esteem and depression that can arise.
And actually, we kind of need to do a better job of selling work as a great thing. And yes, you said right at the beginning of our conversation, how you enjoy working as a kid more than going to school. I've had other people on this podcast say exactly the same thing and that, you know, [00:51:00] they really loved it when they got into the work world because suddenly they could do all sorts of things they couldn't do before and work needs a bit of bit of marketing support in a way I feel at the moment.
Well, I'm on LinkedIn doing that
[00:51:13] Rob: in my perhaps inelegant way, I completely agree with you. You're right. And this is, you know, obviously with labor and what they stand for, I'm scared we're going to lose this. And also selling work. Yes, but it's hard to sell work when the taxes are going up and up and up and inflation's wiping out your money and the cost of living crisis, which is why I love selling entrepreneurship.
[00:51:38] James: Yeah, well, because you're, you're giving people a reason and incentive, you know, entrepreneurship is fun and you make some money, hopefully, and you have a good life and you can do, you have more freedom, those sort of things, which, and the rewards are higher, which are positive, because the work
[00:51:51] Rob: is harder, yeah, but you have
[00:51:53] James: to work hard,
[00:51:54] Rob: you
[00:51:54] James: do, that energy value and time aspect, yes, you
[00:51:57] Rob: have to increase all three of those, yes, [00:52:00] especially time, you know, a lot of people want to start their business and work four hours a day.
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, okay, maybe at the latter end of the career, you can do that, but at the start,
[00:52:11] James: well, that book, the four hour work week is a perennial bestseller. It is. It's that book charts.
[00:52:17] Rob: Yeah. So there are obviously a lot of people
[00:52:20] James: looking for that little.
[00:52:21] Rob: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a very great title.
And to be fair to Tim, there is some good content in there. Um, it is about outsourcing and leverage. I wrote a version called life leverage. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, a four hour work week, you have to earn a four hour work week, probably doing a lot of 14 hour work days to get there first. There's a saying I love, it was Richard Templer, you have to work hard enough not to have to work hard.
[00:52:50] James: Okay. Um, Rob, you've also set up a foundation. Mm. And the foundation, as I understand it, I'd like you to tell us a little bit about it. Is to [00:53:00] help young people get started. Young
[00:53:02] Rob: and underprivileged. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:53:03] James: Underprivileged. So tell
[00:53:05] Rob: me how that works. What, what are you doing? So it's called the Robin Moore Foundation, and I launched it in, I think 2017 when I wrote the book Money.
So that book money was one of the bestselling books in the world on the subject of money. And I was building up quite a good following in 2017. And also I was building up a bit of a following of haters. 'cause you know, you, you don't get the praise without the criticism. And so I thought. I'm going to silence the critics who are going to say, Oh, well, Rob Moore's only written a book on money so he can make money.
So all the profits of the book money go to my foundation and a percentage of all the ticket sales we, um, do for some of our, some of our events, because we've got different types of events, go to the foundation and the foundation is to help young and underprivileged people start meaningful businesses that change the world.
So through the content I do and the training businesses [00:54:00] I have and the communities I've built. People who are either in underprivileged positions, hardships, developing countries, or young and have got some hustle about it. So all around the world this isn't Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how many businesses have you helped to start?
Oh, hundreds. I, I, I couldn't say exactly, because sometimes they'll get 500 quid, sometimes they'll get 15 grand. It depends on the scale of the business and the need and do you go and
[00:54:25] James: visit them, or?
[00:54:26] Rob: It depends. So, um, right at the moment, I'm giving away 15 grand. Um, you know, I kind of like to do a bit like the dragon's den, but I don't take any equity, I just give them the money, so.
For example, quite a few times a year, I give away 15, 000, um, sometimes more, sometimes less, but that, that numbers exciting enough to get someone. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's exciting enough. Um, and, and then also I'm not trying to be dragon's den, but what we do is we get them to fill in a little business plan and then they come and pitch me and my entrepreneur friends.
Um, [00:55:00] so I'm not just giving it away. Um, but they're not having to give away a third of their company at the start, which if you're successful in 10 years can be a very expensive. Wait to give away some money. Yeah, so, um, I kind of, I guess it's half between something like angels, Dan or dragons, Dan and halfway between a charity tried to merge the two.
So entrepreneurial people with a bit of hustle, but I'm not looking for anything back.
[00:55:28] James: Any
[00:55:28] Rob: success stories you particularly proud of? Um, well, I mean, the ones that always. Sit with me at the more meaningful ones. So, yeah, I mean, for example, there's a lady who's, um, she's an alpaca vet and she did 130, 000, 138, 000 pounds extra sales in one year through what she learned through our community and the support we gave her.
And when you're a vet to alpacas. That's not bad, because that's a very, [00:56:00] very But is
[00:56:00] James: this in the UK?
[00:56:01] Rob: Yeah, yeah. I mean, most people didn't go Google what an alpaca is, most people don't know what they are. Well, they live in Peru, don't they,
[00:56:05] James: alpacas? Well, this is it. I mean, she's
[00:56:07] Rob: an alpaca vet. I mean, there are some in the UK, in zoos and things, farms.
Um, so, you know, stories like that, which are a bit left field and quirky, but, um, a couple of stories that come to mind is, um, One lady, her husband murdered her two year old son and, um, she's been in our community, she's been in our community for quite a while and we didn't know anything about this. And she didn't say anything to us, it was just lovely, you know, proactive, trying to start a business.
And she was trying to start, um, a business where essentially, a better business for sort of tracking where your children are. Cause she'd been so inspired through pain. So we funded that we, we, we, we gifted that and that's launched. Um, and that obviously [00:57:00] feels amazing. And then there was another lady who, um, her husband and uncle died in the same, sorry, her husband and brother died in the same week.
And so her son was, was left with no father and no uncle. And then she had to raise her young. Child alone. And so she wanted to write a series of children's books where she could write in dealing with the trauma of not having a father figure or an uncle and losing people close to you. So we funded all of that and she's written these series of children's books, um, you know, and, and, and put these meaningful messages within them.
So, yeah, by the way, you don't have to have trauma to raise money from my foundation. And if you've just, if you're just a bit of a hustler or you're young, or you've just had a challenge, you can apply for money. And often I'll just give away money here and there to [00:58:00] meaningful causes. Um, but yeah, they're, they're sort of three stories that immediately come to mind.
So
[00:58:06] James: to wrap up, Rob, what message have you got for a young prospective entrepreneur?
[00:58:13] Rob: Well, at the end of at least 10, 000 pieces of content I've done, I say, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything. So I would say to anyone young or old, I think it was a stoic philosopher that said, where the fear is.
There the task is. So, there are things in your life you've wanted, but you're scared to take the leap. You're scared to not have the salary anymore, or take the pay cut, or whatever your friends and family might say, or scared of it failing. But if you don't risk anything, you risk [00:59:00] everything. Because if you don't face the fear, we have to face ten, twenty, and thirty years later.
[00:59:10] James: So, you mentioned your business partner, who I believe is called Mark, um, and that he brought money to the party. And
[00:59:17] Rob: experience. And experience.
[00:59:19] James: Knowledge. Yeah. Um, a lot of people embarking in business, as entrepreneurs, often looking for a partner. They're looking for someone who compliments them in different ways or brings different skills.
What's the right way to go? How would you say you should pitch that? You don't want it to be totally different, perhaps? Or
[00:59:41] Rob: do you? No, well, Frankie just said, what's too different? The only too different is exactly the same. Because, if two of you are exactly the same, one of you isn't needed. If you're both doing the same tasks, you're just going to get in each other's way.
You're both going to think you can do it better [01:00:00] and you're going to clash. And so my business partner and I figured this out early where there was duplication and we removed it. Come to that in a moment. It's not imperative to have a business partner, like a joint CEO or a 50 50 shareholder. That's not imperative, but it is imperative to have a team.
You cannot be successful on your own. There is no I in team. It's a cliche, but it's true. Transcribed And Arnold Schwarzenegger says you cannot be successful on your own. You know, he needed coaches, dietitians, PTs, obviously he's a mega entrepreneur now. And whether it is your staff, your senior management, your business advisors, your board, or your partner, You cannot do business alone.
In fact, it will be one of the most lonely endeavors. If you try and do business on your own. So you absolutely, I believe, need to seek these people out. Now I was fortunate. I found a business partner at my first networking event. [01:01:00] Now, if I were to give you the ideal model, you want a similar vision and an opposing skillset.
So our similar vision is we both wanted to be entrepreneurs forever. And we love business and entrepreneurship and investing, and there's nothing we'd rather do. And we figured that out in month two, and we're nearly 20 years down the line. And we don't, either of us want to do anything else. That's why we're still in business.
If I had said, oh yeah, I want to a three year get rich quick. And he just said, well, I'm like Warren Buffett and I waited a 30 year compounding journey we were never going to last. So a similar vision, but that should be pretty much the only thing that's And then the ideal partnership is opposing skill sets, but acknowledging each other's opposing skill sets.
So the problem often is you're looking for someone similar and then the [01:02:00] similarities you get in each other's way, but, but someone who's really different, they'll challenge you. You know, I love sales and marketing and vision and strategy. He loves cost saving and analysis. And that there can be a real clash there.
We look at a PNL and Mark just wants to strip the costs out. And the first cost he goes to is the biggest one. And what's the biggest one marketing. And I'm like, if we cut marketing, we cut growth. So we always argued about marketing costs. I want to spend more. He wants to spend less. Now, neither of our vantage points are wrong.
But we're coming for our own filters, but that's good because they're both being ticked off. So you need opposing skill sets, but appreciation for each other's skill sets. And basically you need to learn to respect. And learn from and listen to the person with opposing skill sets. But importantly, never let it dilute your own.
So at times, I've allowed my business partner [01:03:00] to kind of tone my strategy and vision and energy and passion and disruption down because we're trying to cut costs, especially through lockdown. I mean, the cusk hunting exercise was the most important one. But if you slash all the marketing, you've got no growth.
And at times I've allowed that to stifle me. And, but that's my responsibility, not his. So similar vision, similar passion, similar longevity, completely opposing skillset, honor each other and respect each other's skillsets, but don't dilute and shoot down each other's skillsets. And sometimes you're in a board meeting and you're at a standoff.
Yeah, you've got a Mexican standoff. And if there's a 50 50. You know, maybe there's nothing in your shareholders' agreement to deal with. Well, maybe you a, the standoff, maybe you need a third person, but then. Bring a third person into your marriage, James, see how that goes. Like, the third per You're not married to
[01:03:55] James: him.
You might be smiling, you might like it, but That's The [01:04:00] third person in a business is different. You could have a triumvirate.
[01:04:05] Rob: I imagine three founders is rare. And probably three founders is different. Yeah, you know, maybe three, maybe extra person on the board and you need to have something in your shareholders agreement, which is what happens when there's a lock of four.
I was
[01:04:20] James: thinking you have three directors. So I think in our business, if I want to do something, I have two colleagues that I found out if they are both opposed to what I want to do, then I'll think again.
[01:04:31] Rob: Yeah, you could do that. That could work. We have a couple of unwritten rules, my business partner and I.
Whoever's the most passionate about the decision, the other person will probably D rank. And whoever's the most knowledgeable about that decision, the other will probably D rank. So if it's about marketing and my business partners, like we can't do this, we can't spend the money. As long as I'm more passionate, I'll derank him because I know more about marketing.
And we've got that unwritten rule, and I [01:05:00] think that's a good unwritten rule, because it probably stops a lot of contractual conflict.
[01:05:07] James: Yeah, um, I suppose there are two things I might add, if I may. Value It's your show! Share It's your show! Shared values as well as vision, I think probably you have, or not.
Do you have shared values, you and your business partner? I think we have
[01:05:23] Rob: Different values, but there are some sharing of them. Everybody has a unique set of values. So to try and find someone with the same values as
[01:05:32] James: possible,
[01:05:33] Rob: would
[01:05:35] James: you say?
[01:05:37] Rob: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, what my highest value is growth and progress and my business partner loves compounding.
Um, so there's, yeah, in different ways, you see, he gets excited about cost saving because then he compounds it over 30 years. I get excited about revenue growth piece. Oh yeah. But after, you know, your gross profit, your fixed costs, your variable [01:06:00] costs, you, the net profit might be 12 percent and then your taxation.
So we, we look at. Though we look at growth and progress differently, but yeah, and both, we both love money. And, you know, one of my missions is to help people fall in love with money. Because people think that money is bad or money is evil or, you know, even, even in the Bible, it says the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
That's actually what it says. People misquote it. Um, and money is a tool, like I gave the definition of money, it's a store and exchange.
[01:06:34] James: I don't think you can have too much money, you know, people, my father used to talk about financial obesity and how he wanted to help relieve people of their financial obesity by them being more generous philanthropically.
You've got to have a lot
[01:06:47] Rob: of money to give it away.
[01:06:49] James: Yeah, you do. Especially if you want to be a big donor. Yeah, and I mean a lot of these people But that's a good thing to do if you have a lot of money. Yeah. And you see situations where it has a toxic effect on families, [01:07:00] on next generations, and things like that.
[01:07:02] Rob: Yeah, it does, and often that's inherited wealth.
[01:07:04] James: Yes,
[01:07:05] Rob: but it's still money, isn't it? It is still money, true. Um, but yeah, money, money is the tool and money is the information to use the tool. A hammer doesn't work without you. So there is the, the, the pound notes of money. Yeah. Then there's the instrument and the leverage of it.
[01:07:21] James: is it like alcohol? You know, a little bit's nice and everyone feels happy, but. No. Too much. Not for me. Too much makes you sick.
[01:07:28] Rob: Not for me. Not for you. No, I mean, I've not reached an amount that's too much for me and I've made a lot. And I've not reached an amount where anyone has said to me, Rob, you're too rich.
Um, it's turning you crazy. Maybe I need to reach a hundred billion for that to happen. But look at Warren Buffett. He still seems pretty grounded. I think a lot of that is narrative and rhetoric. Because a human, a human being can be greedy and seek power broke. I think [01:08:00] that money just makes you more of who you already are.
[01:08:03] James: Okay. So, so, Rob, just how important is personal brand?
[01:08:09] Rob: Your personal brand is probably the only thing you'll carry with you your entire career. You may sell a company. You may boom and bust. Some clients will come and go. Merchant providers and banks will come and go. Products will come and go. But your personal brand is the only thing you'll take with you your whole life.
And if you think about someone who's an employee, their personal brand is their CV and their personal brand is LinkedIn. So even someone who's employed, your personal brand is still really important. Because of course, employers look a lot on LinkedIn. So the personal brand is not a brand new phenomenon anymore, but it's a relatively new phenomenon because we needed the internet first and then social media.
Second, before we really [01:09:00] understood personal brand, I'd probably say Michael Jackson, maybe it was the first person that it really seemed understood personal. Brand. So I've focused on it more in the last eight years since I launched my podcast Disruptors, and I think it's really important. Now there's different types of personal brand.
You could be the person that doesn't want to put your face out there and you're not an extrovert. So write articles on LinkedIn, do an audio podcast like this because you can still be an introvert and have a very powerful personal brand. And at the very least, it'll help you get jobs and therefore help you get.
well paid. Um, if you're a little bit more, you've got more to say. I mean, I'm not actually an extrovert. I behave as an extrovert in these situations because it helps them. I'm actually not. I, I just go in and out of both depending, but I can behave as more of an extra if that's the case. Put your message out to the world.[01:10:00]
Um, algorithms now favor content over following, which means if you create content that hits the mark, you'll grow a big following and you'll go viral. Even if you've got no social media following and then your next job and next job and next job and your new business and the business after and the business after you'll always carry your personal brand with you.
I think the big challenge for people is how much time on personal brand versus my company or my employment. Because your company employment is already quite a full time job probably. But, you know, if you look at these modern influencers like, you know, Jake, Paul, they've just, the world, you know, Tommy Fury.
They've opened up the world of everything by having a personal brand.
[01:10:48] James: I ask everyone these questions. So, my first question is, um, what gets you up on a Monday morning?
[01:10:54] Rob: Four shot espresso and I desire to help as [01:11:00] many people on this planet get better financial knowledge. And because I believe maybe we have one life, the afterlife hasn't been proven to me yet. So I'm going to assume there isn't one, therefore I've got a lot of work left to do in this life.
That gets me up every morning.
[01:11:16] James: Thank you. And my other question is, where do you see yourself? This is an interview question from my book up there. One of the fateful 15, where do you see yourself in five years time?
[01:11:26] Rob: Well, in five years time, not far off to the day, I'll be 50. So I see myself in my career as one of the top commentators on the subject of money in the world.
I see myself in terms of the impact i'm having is that i'm helping millions more people get better financial knowledge So you want to increase your reach? Yeah, and i'll probably need botox by then as well. I would have thought that
[01:11:58] James: I'm, well past 50 [01:12:00] relax
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