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In this episode of all about business, James Reed sits down with Centre for Social Justice CEO and proud Leeds native, Andy Cook. They explore the unseen world of philanthropy, why small charities are often more powerful, the best interview questions to ask future employees, and the steps you can take to become a brand locals love.
Andy is CEO of The Centre for Social Justice, an award-winning organisation that aims to solve Britain’s most pressing social issues through political change. Hailing from Leeds, Andy founded another award-winning charity that helped disadvantaged youth across the Midlands. Since then, he’s become an advisor to several leading philanthropists and CSJ has been awarded social policy Think Tank of the Year for the last two years.
1:56 - introducing Andy Cook - CEO for the Centre for Social Justice
2:48 - the Centre for Social Justice
8:43 - the five areas of help that affect society
9:58 - the Big Give
13:38 - the importance of giving people opportunities
16:56 - the power of smaller charities
19:04 - where do donations go and how to make the process better
21:07 - should businesses engage more with philanthropy?
25:35:00 - the Kickstart programme
27:40:00 - finding a balance between education and employer's needs
31:36:00 - the Centre for Social Justice Foundation
34:36:00 - Why businesses should be more involved in the education system
38:18:00 - How you can help
40:10:00 - Reed interview segment
41:50:00 - Wrap up and final thoughts
Find out more about the CSJ: https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/
Follow Andy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-cook-45473456/
Register for the Green Match Fund: https://biggive.org/green-match-fund/
Donate to a cause you care about: https://biggive.org
Follow James Reed on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
All about business is brought to you by Reed Global. Learn more at: www.reed.com
This podcast was co-produced by Reed Global and Flamingo Media. If you’d like to create a chart-topping podcast to get your brand heard, visit Flamingo-media.co.uk
[00:00:00] James: Welcome to all about business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests, bootstrap companies, masterminded investment models, built a business empire. They're leaders in their field and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture.
Small charities and small businesses have a lot in common. They form the backbone of our society and are often started by passionate innovators dedicated to solving particular problems. But with large organizations soaking up funds, resources, and attention, how can these innovators grow their organizations while having an impact on communities in need?
Joining me today on All About Business is Andy Cook. Andy is CEO of the Centre for Social Justice, an award winning organisation that aims to solve Britain's most pressing social issues through political change. Hailing from Leeds, Andy founded another award winning charity that helped disadvantaged youths across the Midlands.
Since then, he's become an advisor to several leading philanthropists, making him the perfect person to talk to us about driving change and making a real difference. So Andy, thank you very much for coming in to talk to me today. Uh, you are the CEO of the Center for Social Justice. You are proudly from Leeds.
I mentioned that. Amen to that one, . And, um, you work with businesses, charities, philanthropists, policy
[00:01:35] Andy: makers. Yeah. I run the center of Social Justice, which is a think tank that operates kind of between, I would say business, philanthropy. charity and the government and politics. And our aim, our particular aim in that is to focus on those most struggling in the UK, the bottom 20 percent, um, those that are detached often from jobs and from school, and try and think about creative ideas to get them back in to fulfill their potential.
So we scour the country about, uh, to do with models that are working, that are changing lives, and we kind of, Put those together and we lobby government using different political players, using media, using good old fashioned coffee and beer in the, in the kind of bars to say this is the stuff that needs to happen.
Uh, and we've got a proud track record of getting big reforms, uh, with whatever government is in power in of the day. So you are in the ideas business. So we are in the ideas business, though I do have a slight disclaimer. Often the ideas aren't ours. We spend our time going and listening and learning to things that are working across the country.
The reason we're quite different, I would say, though, I have to say that comes with a kind of slight thing that I'm massively biased because I love what we do, is that we've got an army of small charities up and down the country. We've got regional offices and people who go out and listen and learn to the front lines of poverty fighting in this country.
We listen and learn to them and what they're doing and how they're solving things, and we bring it back to Westminster. The kind of strapline we use is that we connect the back streets of this nation with the corridors of power. On year in, year out, we average about a third of our ideas get taken up. by government with quite a few billion pounds of investment or policy shift, which is really exciting to have done.
And most of that stuff comes from the front line. Some ideas are we were the people that create the modern slavery act. Uh, as an example, we had a load of small charities coming to us saying, why is no one talking about this? Why is no one fixing this? And so we lifted that as an issue in the public debate.
conscience and then gave it at the time it was, uh, Theresa May was Home Secretary and gave it to her as an act that we, A, they need to take this seriously and B, move it over. So that's quite a big legislative reform. There's big other things, a whole change to welfare came as a result of the CSJs. The CSJ in hearing from charities was trying to change that notion.
Of course money's important but often those most struggling are, um, exhibiting real issues in four or five different areas. Educational failure. family breakdown, debt, addiction and worklessness. So one of the big areas the CSJ made its name on was analyzing the welfare system as it was 20 years ago and seeing there's all these different benefit streams going in.
It wasn't one computerized, digitalized thing. And it didn't highlight work as the best route out of poverty. And so the CSJ reformed the whole of how that operated into a thing called universal pay. credit, which essentially became the new welfare system. So there's this huge years and years of pushing this massive government thing that actually stood up really well through the pandemic.
We were the only place across Europe that had our welfare system digitalized, that brought all benefits together. So you're not going to one office for housing benefit, another for your kind of sickness benefit, anything else, and it all comes and works on a household basis. So that was another. major reform that the CSJ drove through and still keeps trying to tinker with to this day to make it
[00:04:53] James: better.
I like your phrase from the back streets to the corridors of power and I mean those are two huge examples of modern slavery and the whole universal credit
[00:05:00] Andy: system. There's some tiddlers as well which we're as as proud of and there's some things that we've not solved frankly that our small charities often act as canaries in the mine telling us what the real issues are and there's some things where we've seen and flagged as issues but as yet have not got over the line in any meaningful change.
So we're constantly fighting battles for big ideas and landing them, but constantly, you know, often we don't get there. You've talked about
[00:05:26] James: these small charities. In my world, small businesses create jobs more than any anybody else in the economy. So these small charities, you're saying, are much more in tune and in touch with the way people are living.
Could you Explain how you find them, what sort of organizations are they, what sort of people run them, and why are they so good at what they do?
[00:05:46] Andy: I mean, I do think it totally mirrors the business world in lots of ways, that there's a load of the big boys that operate, 84 percent of giving in this country goes to just 4 percent of the charitable market, which if you step back, it's quite a staggering figure that 4 percent hoover up all the resource.
Yeah. Tens of thousands of small charities are operating in localities. And often you'll find these groups are the ones where one minute they're cleaning the toilet, the next they're trying to get their budget done. One minute they're kind of saving the life and inspiring a young person, the next they're trying to work out how on earth to do a flyer.
They're often absolutely embedded. into their communities. Families know them. Trust is there and rife. And frankly, those that are most struggling often, the trust is there because they know it's not just a job to them. It's not just a job. That's why things like mentoring, by the way, works so well, because it's the person that's mentoring, people know that they are volunteering.
And they're real volunteers, they're not salaried. So lots of them are, have salaries, but I guess I'm kind of saying it's the same. type of feeling that often the small local ones are trusted by often the families that need them most because they're not just some distant professional coming in to try and solve an issue in a 12 week course.
[00:07:01] James: We're delighted that you're watching this episode. Please hit the subscribe button if you'd like to receive more insights and actionable advice that will help your business and or career. So you talked about those five areas that affect society, particularly addiction, debt, worklessness. Do these charities tend to
[00:07:22] Andy: focus on those areas?
For us, we're constantly trying to find the best small charities working in education or family support or debt. And so we've got a model where we've got regional offices, I mean, office is quite a grand word. We've got a person in a region who's got a car and sometimes a dog, and their job is to drive around and find the best thing that no one's seen or heard.
That best debt charity that's changing the lives of people, or that best family support structure. And our job is to try and find that. bring them together into our network so we can learn from them on a policy front and then we can connect them with philanthropists and business because that's the other thing we do.
We don't only try and listen and learn and glean their ideas to lobby government to do something bigger and bolder and different, we also try and be a bit of a backer. a kind of matchmaker towards philanthropists and businesses who so often don't know where to go. You know, that eight, 84 percent going to 4 percent of the charities is so often because it's well worn paths, big brands of these enormous charities that gobble someone up and it's an easier way to do it.
Whereas we try and break that barrier down.
[00:08:31] James: So we, we, we try and help small charities raise funds through the big give, you know, match funding platform. So please, please, please. tell people about that. I am a
[00:08:40] Andy: fully fledged signed up disciple of the Big Give. I'm not just saying that because I'm sat with you here James, but genuinely and what that does so powerfully is it it brings out what can be a sleepy market at times because someone's putting up the money and matching it feels kind of stronger and where my encouragement and my plea to listeners would be is go and look for where that money can make the most impact.
It goes furthest with the little guys, you know, There's some staggering stats. During the pandemic, the top, I think it was either 10 or 100 charities, furloughed 33, 000 staff. It cost, um, 243 million to do that. That's right. Whereas the small guys didn't put themselves on standby or asleep. They were absolutely out there, kind of bending rules to be alongside people.
The little guys, it's mission first all the time, not organisational safety first.
[00:09:30] James: I remember being, being suggested to me that we should put the Big Give to sleep. I said, no way. You know, this is the moment we've got to step up and, and help people and raise funds and do stuff. And we work with the National Emergencies Trust to obviously support a lot of local organising.
Now, Andy, you said at the beginning that you started one of these charities. Could you just tell me a little bit about that?
[00:09:50] Andy: I grew up in Leeds. I had to get that in. I have to mention Leeds about eight times in every kind of thing that I do. Uh, and I ended up moving further south. Uh, went to university in Sheffield.
And then I went down to Loughborough. So, further much to my mother's Because I was getting further and further away from the epicenter of the world, as she calls it. And I ended up down there, living close to a really rough estate called the Warwick Way Estate. And I remember meeting two lads there, Ash and Terry.
Absolute belters of young men, who, in a sense, had, Um, I watched what happened to their life. They both had older siblings in prison. Their mums were on their own and struggling under things. They'd fallen out of school and they were doing soddle. But yet they were the brightest, most articulate, funny, I mean, they mercilessly took the mickey out of me.
Lads, but the grace of God go I. You know, I've just lost my dad, yet these guys have never known their dad and they're on their own. And there's only, there's one path that seems to be, there for them. They had no motivation. There was no, this kind of infrastructure wasn't there. So very simply, uh, me and my friend set up a group that tried to link them with people in the community who were doing jobs and trying to get them into apprenticeships, trying to get them, uh, get them mentors to give them some stability.
And do you know what? It really worked. I couldn't believe it. It's the first thing that ever worked for me. But it was, we, we linked them with, with amazing people. that kind of gave them love and care and a bit of a push at times and got them into jobs and the charity is called 2020 and it started on one estate in Loughborough in fact it started life it's called Charnwood 2020 because that was the area but then it started to grow more people got interested in it and then we won this big award from the Centre for Social Justice which is now where I work.
Got this award and a 20 grand prize and a sponsor and then made the charity take off and went and we ended up growing it all across the region. Fantastic. And what happened to Terry and Ash? Do you know? Still going. So Ash is in Morrisons now working, um, in Loughborough. He's manager. I mean, he's so on the straight and narrow now.
I'd last time I went back there, I tried to see if I could get a bit of a friends and family discount. He told me to bugger off. I couldn't believe it. Hopefully good for him, yeah, he kept strong, he kept strong, I couldn't believe it. So, uh, and married, two children, uh, and Ash, Ash is the
[00:12:08] James: same. What's interesting there is employers, you said, gave them love, care, and push, and they were prepared to give them a chance by the sound of things.
That's so important for people listening because I always say, you know, someone gave me a chance. Someone gave you a chance. So important to give other people a
[00:12:24] Andy: chance. But do you know what businesses just being good businesses that is transformational in this country really is. I remember the CSJ one of the first reports when I got there was already underway.
We did about business and business for good or something like this it was called and the first thing it just said is do you know what business is being good, uh, transformational in this nation, giving someone a chance who wouldn't perhaps normally have it, getting alongside them, not kicking them out at the first mistake, but actually using it.
as a teachable moment doing some of the other stuff like the community building stuff, having sports teams or those kind of things operating from the business. They are transformational, not just for individuals, but then for their own families and for the areas in which they live. So we are huge fans of business at CSJ and I personally am because they are what have changed the lives of a lot of our young people.
And that does a huge amount to their own self esteem, their own financial management.
[00:13:20] James: How does an organization as it grows? How does it hold on to its sort of values and mission in a way that is authentic?
[00:13:29] Andy: You know, that kind of phrase of who you have on the bus is always the point. We used to use a phrase and still do now when we employ, if we employ for attitude, train for skills.
Is there someone who's got a value alignment? This in coming into our business, even now to this day, I make sure I have time with every single person. I mean, when, uh, who's, who's applying, who joins us just to try and get to grips. Are they in this for the mission that we're on now? I take that can be very different in businesses, especially in what you ask them just out of interest.
So you
[00:13:57] James: want to check that they're with you on the program.
[00:14:00] Andy: I'll often start by asking them what questions they have for me. That's where you start. That's how I start. If they're out there. Yeah. is can I work from home? Uh, I'm starting to think. Hello. Uh, if they're second for
[00:14:12] James: the holidays. Oh, yeah. Second one is, uh, is it?
[00:14:15] Andy: Yeah. How many is a bank holiday is the time in between Christmas and New Year? Classically, I'm thinking, Oh, double. Hello. You know, are you here for what we're after here? So I'll often start with that because it, um, I'm interested in their hunger and seeing the whites of their eyes. So what would be a good answer to that question?
I've had a couple of people, some young'uns come in recently saying, how long are you staying around for at this place? What do you, what is, what are you after in the next? What's your next big win? What's the big thing that you've not cracked that you want to crack? Putting me on the spot in that way. I'd love that.
The kind of hunger. So curiosity there in a real sort of Curiosity, hunger. Um, you know, desire in a way.
[00:14:54] James: I like that. I've never heard that though. Ask me the questions first, what you've got to ask me.
[00:14:58] Andy: I've got to use that. And what else do you do? I have to say, I learned from a very dear friend of mine who run an extremely big business where we were recruiting for, we were both on the board of a, uh, different charity, and we were recruiting for a new CEO.
And he often started by saying, Listen, I'm just going to level with you. These are our three concerns about you. What's your we want to give you a right of reply on why they should not be concerns. That was the opener. That was
[00:15:24] James: the opener. And I thought, Oh, that's a bit punchy. So if you've got an interview with Andy, you might get one or the other.
You can't start with both, can you? So that's useful. So So do you feel that the larger organizations maybe aren't playing that in the same way? Is that
[00:15:39] Andy: Where I'm interested is, is people that are looking to the mission. So often what you see in the little guys is their question will be, how do we put ourselves out of business?
I know this is different to the business podcast. No, that's interesting. But how do we not be needed? In a sense, we want to lose Numbers, which I think's a really profound question. Whereas I think a lot of the big boys end up becoming how do we keep ourselves strong. Because they get, they drink the Kool Aid so much of them being the most important things going.
It ends up meaning that they, at all costs will say that they're needed. Now, I'm not saying that their work isn't needed and they, their infrastructures become so thirsty, they have to keep pouring petrol in. And I see that as different in the small guys, often the best small guys, of course, back what they're delivering, of course, back their model, but actually you're asking the question, how are we not needed?
And that fundamentally changes the way the organization's run.
[00:16:33] James: That's a fundamental difference between a business and a charity, actually, that charity, by doing a good job, eradicates itself if it's business by doing a good job will continue to grow because more customers come towards it, which is very interesting.
And some charities maybe end up behaving more like
[00:16:48] Andy: businesses. And it comes from good heart often that we are solving this and we want to do it more. But then you do look at how big it is. big these things become and actually if they are they really asking themselves, are they the best answer to the question?
I would say that a lot of the big boys are not looking at where the best infrastructure to deliver their mission is because it's not always through themselves.
[00:17:10] James: Hi, I hope you're enjoying this episode of all about business. Next April our charity partners big give will be running their annual green match fund where all the money raised will go to environmental charities around the world.
If you know a green charity that would benefit from doubling their donations, get them to register by January the 16th, 2025. The link is in the show notes. Okay, back to the episode. A lot of these charities have very sort of dynamic local leaders. That's what's happening on the one side. And then on the other, You said 84 percent of the money went to 4 percent of the organizations.
How could that be made to work better so that the dynamic local
[00:17:50] Andy: leaders receive more? There's a fundamental question in this country about infrastructure, about, in terms of for the little guys, there is no infrastructure. It's very hard for business, even local businesses, to know what exactly is out there.
There has to be a move to better infrastructure. And, uh, unequally, I would say it's how. How is it from us who are running businesses or wherever where we can proactively engage locally rather than just Expect them to come to us and I would say that's about how big Business and leaders can be proactive on a few areas and there's some good, there's some better infrastructure coming, but it's not there yet.
[00:18:32] James: We're looking at this with Big Give actually, sort of thinking about regional, supporting regional organisations and how, you know, businesses can connect with them better, perhaps through the Big Give in the future. It's difficult for people to give money away to local organisations because they simply don't know who they are or who the good ones are or how to find them.
Is there, um a future for some sort of digital service that points people to
[00:18:55] Andy: things? I mean, absolutely there is. Yeah. And it's already happening. There's a number of different groups that have done it. There's a, there's an amazing, um, set up called giving is great set up by John Spears. And what it does is it, It looks at who else has funded it as a kind of quality assurance mark.
So if, you know, big givers ended up some money there or children in need or, you know, that they've had to go through some serious hoops. Yeah, because we do due diligence. Due diligence. And so if that someone else has given that on the whole, it, it kind of might be all right. And then you can segment it down to local.
areas. It's a very clever way to kind of, uh, bring that together. So how do people find that if they want to? So that one's just the, that one's just on the website of, um, Giving is Great. It's starting to build, I would suggest.
[00:19:40] James: No, the Giving is Great is, is a good idea, isn't it? And, and obviously the big give as well with the match funding opportunities we put in.
We're trying to reach more charities. Looking forwards, do you think that Business should be engaging more with philanthropy. I mean, we're trying to encourage more businesses to become what we call philanthropy companies. And we find that is motivational for people who want to work in the business.
Customers actually, they like working with us because of that. And, you know, our dividends then go into the foundation, which goes out to all these different local organizations. Is that a model you're seeing at all elsewhere in the UK? It seems more prevalent in other countries.
[00:20:16] Andy: And actually, there's enormous power, the other thing I think there's enormous power in that happening, is the power of the brand.
In this kind of world, and particularly in communities, where classic things are not trusted as much anymore, you know, not as many people go to church, the, the, the classic things in communities are kind of Not there as much. The youth clubs aren't there as much. What brands do you trust? And I think as a kind of corporate strategy, if you like, being really branded locally with some local, local kind of delivery partners, if you like.
We can do the business some real good, and it's a talent finder. I am convinced that up and down this country, we've got an army of talent that is just desperate to be found and unearthed in our estates, in our communities. The story I tell about Ash and Terry, they were sharp as you like. They just needed a chance.
They would make a great employer. And I think that local coming together of business enables the brand to get stronger. And I think you can find talent. Ducking and diving quality that you won't see often coming out of universities nowadays. So I wanted to ask
[00:21:22] James: you about that because in Britain at the moment we've got this issue with inactivity, large numbers of young people and older people and disconnected from the workforce.
This is obviously something you've been exploring. What ideas do you have for, that the businesses could perhaps embrace
[00:21:38] Andy: to help address this? I think this is the biggest issue going on right now. Uh, we've got, 8. 8, nearly 9 million people inactive in the country. Now, 2. 8 million of those are signed off work sick, of which half is on mental health reasons.
[00:21:54] James: But that's not sustainable, is it? I mean, because the other, the other 80 percent can't support these numbers of people.
[00:21:59] Andy: It's not sustainable. And yet there is, again, using the Manchester example, there's 9, 200 odd jobs available right now. Average salary, I think, is on 29, 000 of those jobs. So these, you know, there is, there's jobs there.
There's people far from the labor market. So I think that's the biggest issue facing this country that and the, and the education system and the missing children from schools, which we can talk about in a bit, what we're trying to do on that, we've been looking at this for quite a while, this exploded through the pandemic, particularly on the grounds of sickness.
Now, what, how businesses stay engaged with people if they're, um, Turning off sick is a key part I think of this and how do businesses do that work with occupational health or however It may be to try and keep people in even if it's a day or two Etc rather than them going out and ending up being long term sick.
But secondly, how do they engage regionally? with some of the actors that are there trying to find people who are, uh, inactive and, um, on, on the kind of welfare system at the moment. Well,
[00:23:00] James: there are programs like Restart and the Work and Health program, Reading Partnership, one of our businesses involved in that helps people progress back into work.
So employers should reach out to them. 100 percent There are a number of companies that do that because that service is free to the employer. We've heard from people who've used our employers that those people are very, very supportive. become very good members of the team because they're very appreciative of having a job and they're absolutely
[00:23:24] Andy: they're loyal.
They're loyal. They're focused. They've been given a second chance. Anyone who gets a second chance in that sense will take it. And they become some of your best stuff. So there's there's a lot that
[00:23:36] James: business can do here, isn't there really to sort of try? Because I suppose the other option for business is to look for people from overseas to come, which has been happening as well.
[00:23:44] Andy: Yeah, and this is the big Debate in a way, do we, do you pull the migration lever, the immigration lever? Or do we try and kind of find people that are close, close to home in localities of which there is a lot of, and that will always be, you know, I know that has to be on skills base and all the rest. I'm not kind of naive to that, but there is a whole lot of talent.
In our communities and our estates during the pandemic, there was a scheme
[00:24:08] James: called kickstart. And it's quite interesting because I think it was for young people who hadn't been to college or university who've been out of work for six months. Several of these people came into our business. And I often visit our offices and I'm often chatting people on that.
So when do you sign the, I came in on kickstart and I hear that a lot. I'm thinking this was a really good program because there are people who perhaps wouldn't have known about us or we wouldn't have known about them. And it's exactly an example of.
[00:24:33] Andy: And some of these schemes can work brilliantly in that way.
And again, you find young people who are hungry. There is a lot out there. Um, so yeah, more, more power to it. In fact, one of our big, we've just, we brought, it's the CSJ's 20 year anniversary this year. And so, um, we brought out a paper of kind of 20 years. Where's everything at in, in poverty. It's called two nations.
Um, Um, slight spoiler alert. And this was a total cross party endeavour. So we had, um, two, two Lib Dems, we had two Labour, two Conservative, and then people like Lord Mervyn King on the board, the ex governor of the Bank of England, to analyse where the big issues were. And then we, um, brought another paper out called, uh, A United Nation.
We brought that out about three weeks ago with 50 big ideas to solve these issues that were not about pouring money into things. In fact, they're all cost neutral in that way, because we know the kind of government of the day says that there's, there's no cash. We were deliberately trying to drive that agenda.
And loads of the things that we found, one of the big things on employment was you could devolve a load of the central government, the Whitehall money. Interlocality, six billion on the kind of kickstart things are all designed from Whitehall, but drive things locally. And that's another business principle, I guess.
And you'll know better than anyone, James, about, you know, you have kind of centers of businesses that often operate in London or wherever else it might be. But then how do you get the regions to have their own absolute identity? The same model, absolutely, but how they get across. And it's no different in policymaking for government because what's needed in Manchester or Leeds was very different to what's needed around Somerset or whatever.
And that's where we think there could be real opportunity.
[00:26:11] James: That's very interesting. Now the other big issue you're sort of grappling with, you said was education. And we see a number of issues. with the mismatch with education and what employers are looking for, I suppose, you know, whether it's people coming out of universities with qualifications that employers don't find particularly relevant to what they do, or if it's people who haven't had the opportunity to do any sort of further education, really, at all.
What are you seeing as the
[00:26:35] Andy: key issues here? The primary issue now, from our point of view, is actually kids who are missing from school right now. During the pandemic, we did a huge paper and we termed this phrase ghost children, which was taken up quite significantly. Now these are children that are out of school over 50 percent of the time, operating from primary school up to 16.
So I think that's one of the big issues, but you're absolutely right. The other big issue is this kind of phrase that they've used about parity of esteem between universities. I would say skills route and, um, apprenticeships and how you absolutely say this is not just a secondary thing. If you don't, if you're not going to uni, but a primary thing and how we value that in our system.
I agree. We've
[00:27:17] James: started through read environments of energy academies where we're teaching people retrofit skills. And, you know, people with those skills in London can earn 70 an hour. And you can learn them in six months.
[00:27:29] Andy: The green agenda is exciting for that. We did a bit, we did a paper on that same thing with loads of the housing providers.
The green agenda should be turned to a skills agenda.
[00:27:37] James: So is there a work ethic issue here? Because you, you talked about sort of kids not going. to school, and in the old days, that was totally expected. And then, you know, the association with working from home, and, you know, the sort of pandemic changing that in some way.
And then, at the same time, we've got the baby boomer generation leaving the workforce, and then the sort of new generated Gen Z coming in.
[00:28:01] Andy: I don't know if it's a work ethic. I think it's a, children don't know best. And we are now seemingly to put the, actually, power and responsibility almost in the hands.
Of young people saying well, hang on. What do they want? And of course you've got to listen and learn what's going on But often it's kind of I think it's kind of gone too far that driving authority and families. It's almost about Uh, rights now and not responsibilities. It's how do we move this from the kind of I to the we again, I think.
I think because it's gone too far over to the I, the individualistic society, rather than talking about things as families and homes in that way. And communities. And communities. Where everyone contributes. Everyone contributes. And do you know what? When you contribute, it takes a bit out of you. It's part of it.
You don't always gain, you know. But it's so important for well being, I think. totally you know when you hear about so many people with mental health issues well say they talk about kind of social prescribing thing which is never fully used what it taught me through social prescribing social prescribing is basically rather than throwing everyone into kind of pills and into rooms where you sit on your own and uh, because you say you've got a mental health issue i'm not demeaning things that are really there, genuinely there you Move people into social situations, like sport, like work, like others, where doctors could essentially say, Do you know what?
This is the best for you, but it's ha it doesn't happen enough.
[00:29:24] James: No, and I've seen that myself through people coming on our programs for unemployment, who've been out of work for many years, who, who, uh, are supported into a new job, want to get a new job, and they're transformed by that experience.
[00:29:36] Andy: Where's it easier for a doctor to go to?
Is it easier to go and prescribe a medical intervention, or is it easier to say, do you know what, here's some social things that will absolutely change your life? Because if, if something bad happens, that undoubtedly comes back on the doctor in that way, but we would say that that is. That is where we should be starting and really doubling down on because that's what will change things.
Sport, community action, jobs, being in school, that stuff really matters. You
[00:30:07] James: also have the Center for Social Justice Foundation. Can you tell me a little bit about that and what you do with that? Yeah,
[00:30:13] Andy: I love it. It's um, we created it a couple of years ago because frankly we, We, different people fund us to do our work with businesses, individuals, um, trusts and foundations.
And we found more and more people coming and saying, I want to give something I don't know where to give. I grew up in Hartlepool. I've made my money in London. I've gone back to Hartlepool and I can't believe what I've seen. How do I access that rather than just giving down well worn pasts? Because I go to a dinner, I have a few too many baby shams, and I buy a cricket bat for 10 grand in an auction.
You know, I'm tired of doing that kind of stuff. So we wanted to create, we had all these charities that are feeding our work and said, look, can we create a mini infrastructure to try and take a bit of 84? percent to four percent figure. So we ended up getting a few people to help us and fund this infrastructure.
And now we help numbers of people do their philanthropy and find stuff in either, you know, geographies or on those five pathway areas that I told you that, that are often innovative, small, uh, that no one would have known about.
[00:31:17] James: Well, I would urge anyone listening to make contact with you. If that was, we'd love to help.
We'd love to help. So there are more and more ways for people to connect with local organizations to support small
[00:31:27] Andy: charities. It's not just about the check. I do think the small guys then can get brains and brawn in business understanding, you know, you connect with a small guy. I remember at 2020, we had different business leaders coming in, helping us do our business planning, our strategy, shaping our budgetary.
cycles in how we did it. It was absolute revelation to us. It's what helped us kind of strengthen what we're doing. That's because
[00:31:52] James: you asked
[00:31:52] Andy: them
[00:31:53] James: to, didn't you?
[00:31:53] Andy: Yeah. I mean, well done. I'm Yorkshire lad. I was asking for everything I could get. So you
[00:31:56] James: made yourself known and local. And I think people do want to help, don't they?
Yeah, they do. So, you know, any charities listening, don't be shy to
[00:32:04] Andy: go and ask. This is where, you know, often the, you know, charity days, we'll paint a wall for a day Absolutely. It's good stuff. But goodness me, the richness of talent in businesses that charities want to partner with is there. So I'd also say to businesses, you know, go and say, make yourself available.
And it's great training stuff. If you've got groups of people in the business that you're wanting to train. I remember actually, I did a thing with Uh, ABF Foods, my sister Twining's. They did this graduates course every year where they found their 20 graduates and they attached them to different charities.
And normally they went to a load of the big household names and they helped them in strategic planning. My charity 2020, because my sister got me in, I ended up having like the head of Hovis. Someone big in hat twining's all descending on this estate in Loughborough saying how can we help? It revolutionized everything.
We got a load of freebies, we got some money, we got different things. But goodness me, they revolutionized that business plan. It was amazing. And I would say that businesses can do that, but often that's best felt on the small and local. And what about
[00:33:07] James: businesses and
[00:33:08] Andy: schools?
[00:33:09] James: Because We have quite a lot of evidence that where businesses have been more involved in the education of young people, even if it's just going into the school and talking about what they do and what opportunities there are, it supports young people progressing afterwards.
[00:33:21] Andy: 100%. I mean, honestly, the, you know, academization program, the biggest strength I think that did is flush out businesses to engage with schools on a whole range of different things, business leaders to get involved in the education system. We need more of it. Not less. And again, the power of the brand thing, I think it's important here.
And this is where it plays into a business favor. If you are linking a local business with a local school, then what you see is the parents engaging with that brand, the job applications for the business have gone up. Got higher and higher and higher that knowledge of what it's doing where it's at All right So I think there's great payoff for both and the kids then see there's a future because the parents working And there's jobs available to them.
I
[00:34:06] James: mean businesses, I believe can create value and contribute to social justice Totally and many businesses are very trusted in communities Totally. And then it gives added oomph to the, to the education system. Thinking about these big challenges, it's a model for one connecting with the other. What should people be thinking about?
[00:34:26] Andy: What we do is I think you've got to find something that people could come around together. What's the issue you want to solve? Sometimes so often things start in a locality. You've got your focus, you've got your need, what's the scale of this issue? And if we were able to solve it both locally as well as nationally, what's the payoff here?
You then combine around the local target. and a bigger target. Focus on what you're wanting to do, convening around that thing, and anyone who's not really up for it, they don't have to be there. Uh, and then making the case for change, both on a political level, small p, or big national politics, as well as an impact.
[00:35:04] James: So real clarity around the problem to be solved, uh, and then convening a really committed group of people with, I guess, varied skills and Yeah. expertise to contribute and then taking that out with a very clear message to people who might
[00:35:21] Andy: step in and support. Certainly in politics and in policy, very small rooms decide very big decisions.
Ultimately, it always gets to a top table of a few people. Very small rooms, very big decisions. They do. Often it's about a scalpel situation of who is in that room. And how do we get to them with convincing them that this is, you have to do this to change the nation or to serve your political aspiration or to serve your company.
[00:35:48] James: So you need to know your argument and have it very well rehearsed and prepared, but you also
[00:35:53] Andy: need to know who the decision makers are. Exactly. So you need to know your, and this is often the thing, you see this time and time again in lobbying and in charities, just because it's a worthy and it's a necessary cause, they think it's, It's just got to happen.
And it doesn't. And that's the sad thing. It should happen, but it doesn't. So you've got to absolutely drive it to who, who is those decision makers? What are they going to respond to in that way? And our job is often in politics. And how do you make a political argument as to why this needs to happen? But in businesses, it could be very different.
I think the same principle applies,
[00:36:25] James: you know, if you're trying to, if you're pitching something, whether it's an idea or a product or a sale, I mean, in politics, the decision makers have all just changed. Yes.
[00:36:34] Andy: Is that a challenge for you? Yeah, well, I mean, they changed about 200 times under the last government.
They did.
[00:36:39] James: They keep changing, in fact. Yeah, we've had a lot of employment ministers since I've been around. You've got to get some movement, some action. You've got to get some
[00:36:44] Andy: traction, and you've got to get some heat. And often people don't, you know, you create a bit of heat to get the light. You said something earlier about
[00:36:51] James: the sort of big charities.
And, and we hear this a lot on the news and the radio that, you know, the problems are always huge and, you know, the solutions remote or far off or always needing more money. And what do you think about this? Because it sounds to me like you're someone who's addressing these big challenges with 50 ideas that won't cost any more in a different spirit.
It seems that there's a sort of bit of a cloud over the country. How can we help lift it, I suppose, working together business
[00:37:18] Andy: philanthropy? If there's people in the toughest areas that are actually full of sunshine and hope and goodness, then actually that can be spread far wider and further. And I think this, this is the point.
We've got to draw out the doers. and the can dos. This is why I found the Prime Minister's speech recently quite difficult in a way because it was 10 years to fix all these. Of course we know there's problems, but there's always bigger solutions. One of our things that we say at the CSJ is that someone's always solving these problems somewhere, and that's in the business community, that's in the charity community, particularly the small ones which we manage.
How do we bring those good stories out? Solving stories are not just the issues, you know, to answer your question, how do we, I think, you know, your, your fellow business leaders are actually driving the change here. You're employing people, you're investing, you're doing good. Let's, let's have them out more on the front lines saying how kind of how actually there's some real strength.
happening here in the regions. Let's, let's have them taking the pedestal and going. And absolutely, I know there's always a fear that you can get shot down and someone has a pop, but there's such good news stories out there. And that's what we try and do with our small charities. It's not trying to say that everything's hunky dory, nothing to see here.
And I think that's sometimes the juxtaposition between the small guys who are overcomers and the big guys who need to almost show how bad everything is in order to keep their businesses going.
And
[00:38:44] James: the first question I'm going to ask you is, when I ask everyone, and the question is, what
[00:38:48] Andy: gets you up on a Monday morning? I would say my daughters who are kind of rolling around or whatever. What gets me up on a Monday morning? It's actually, it starts to happen on a Sunday night, where you're just kind of, kids to bed, and you're starting to feel excited about the week to come.
And for me, it can be anything that we're doing that week, but, but it's what are we, Pushing on with rather than what we just keeping afloat. I think there's always two stages in any business or organization you're running order and advance. You're always either getting something ordered or you're advancing something.
If you if neither of those things are happening, you're flat. And I think it's one of those two things. Am I organizing something in order to advance or are we bloody advancing somewhere? And so come get on board type thing. So for me, it's the order or the advance.
[00:39:35] James: The second question is, is from my interview book.
And, um, it's a common question. So you've probably been asked it before, but where do you see yourself in
[00:39:45] Andy: five years time? I have absolutely no idea. I have never had a business plan for my life. I've never, maybe I should have never had a career plan. I've only ever done the things that have brought me alive.
There's an old phrase isn't there that kind of don't ask yourself what the World needs ask yourself what brings you alive because what the world needs the people that are alive and I've just gone after I did the charity. I did the CSJ and it's where we drive change and that brings me a life. So I don't know where I'll be in five years.
But I know I'll be doing something that's bringing me a life.
[00:40:18] James: I'll bring you back and we'll talk about it. Thank you very much. to Andy for joining me on all about business. If you'd like to find out more about the Center for Social Justice and Andy, visit thecenterforsocialjustice. org. I'm your host, James Reid, Chairman and CEO of Reid, a family run recruitment and philanthropy company.
If you'd like to support a cause that's close to your heart, while also doubling the difference, check out our charity partners, Big Give. All links are in the show notes. See you next time.